Welcome to Direct Democracy Diaries Episode 1: “How a Story of Redemption Transformed Democracy Across America with Desmond Meade.”
Ballot measures are reshaping democracy from the ground up — but what does it really take to run one? In our very first episode, co-hosts Chris Melody Fields Figueredo and Caroline Sánchez-Avakian sit down with Desmond Meade — MacArthur “Genius,” Time 100 honoree, BISC partner, and the visionary behind Florida’s Amendment 4, which restored voting rights to over 1.4 million people.
Together, they unpack the strategy, storytelling, and sheer determination that make ballot measures powerful tools for change. From building unlikely coalitions to centering the voices of those most impacted, this episode dives deep into why ballot measures matter now more than ever — and why dreaming big can transform our democracy.
If you’ve ever wondered how people-power becomes policy, this conversation will inspire, challenge, and ignite your imagination. Check out the full episode below, plus some of our top highlights from and quotes!
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Highlights from the episode with Desmond Meade:
- “No matter where I went in the state of Florida, I would ask the same question. I don’t care where I went. You know what that question was? Do you know anybody you love who has ever made a mistake? That’s it. Then we’re on. Let me tell you, it works 99.999999% of the time. We didn’t have to change any messaging when we dealt with a person’s heart.”
- “Love can, in fact, win the day. We don’t have to create fear in each other to move major policies. Love can, in fact, do it.”
- “When it gets to a point where our public servants are not doing our bidding, then we have a mechanism through a ballot measure that allows us to take matters into our own hands because we are the original holders of the power — not the parties.”
- “When I was arrested, they didn’t ask me if I was a Democrat or a Republican. When I went before the judge to get sentenced, he didn’t ask me if I was Democrat or Republican. All of that was irrelevant. These economic challenges and substance abuse issues are things that impact people, not parties. And therefore, the solution is within the people, not the parties.”
- “We didn’t lead with the politics. We led with the people. No matter what issue you’re dealing with, if you lead with politics or policies or labels as opposed to the people, then you’re not going to be as effective as you really want to be.”
- “We didn’t need an external enemy. We needed to capture the things inside of us that unite us as a human race. That laid the foundation for us to pursue our amendment in a way that elevated it above partisan politics and even implicit or explicit racial biases.”
- “As I sit here reflecting on the passage of Amendment 4, I can see how Amendment 4 was a love letter to people in Florida. How we said: We actually can accomplish great things when we put those we love at the forefront of our actions, as opposed to our parties or our political leanings. It showed how — when we can believe in forgiveness, redemption, restoration — that anyone who makes a mistake deserves a second chance — that can turn into something beautiful.”
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Episode Highlights:
- [00:00:00] Introduction to Desmond Meade and his role in rights restoration
- [00:03:32] Desmond’s personal story and transformation
- [00:05:39] Initial motivations for advocacy and discovery of disenfranchisement
- [00:09:45] Importance of storytelling and human connection in the movement
- [00:11:30] Challenges in convincing institutions and the bipartisan strategy
- [00:16:12] Building a people-first, inclusive campaign
- [00:22:48] Messaging strategy and focusing on shared humanity
- [00:30:34] Leading with the heart over political strategy
- [00:33:13] Desmond’s experience with BISC and campaign support
- [00:41:27] Ensuring long-term impact beyond the ballot measure
- [00:49:27] Post-election challenges and political hurdles
- [00:57:29] Why ballot measures matter now
- [01:04:56] Advice for new and seasoned advocates
- [01:07:37] Amendment 4 as a love letter to community
Episode Transcript:
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Welcome to the Direct Democracy Diaries, the podcast where we explore the power of ballot measures and the people behind them. I’m Caroline Sánchez-Avakian.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
And I’m Chris Melody Fields Figueredo. Join us as we dive deep into the stories, strategies, and successes that are shaping the future of our democracy, one diary entry at a time. Hey y’all, I’m Chris Melody Fields Figueredo, and welcome to the very first episode of the Direct Democracy Diaries, powered by the Ballot Initiative Strategy Center.
I am your co-host and also the Executive Director of BISC, Chris Melody Fields Figueredo. And this is it. This is our first episode, Caroline.
I am so excited.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
And I am Caroline Sánchez-Avakian, your co-host, BISC’s Strategic Communications Director and I am so thrilled to be your co-host, Chris, on this journey.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
I am so excited. This podcast is all about the power of ballot measures, and you’re going to hear it in this first episode, the incredible people behind it, like Desmond Meade, our first guest, who are using them to build a more just and joyful democracy.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
You’re going to hear all the real stories, all the big wins, all the tough lessons and all those behind the scenes moments that don’t always make the headlines.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
So whether you’re an organizer, a policy nerd, or just a little curious about our democracy, you belong here.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
That’s right. We’re going to build people power with heart, with strategy, and yes, with a little bit of fun, too. This is Direct Democracy Diaries.
Let’s dive in, Chris.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
I am so excited to join our first guest of Direct Democracy Diaries, Desmond Meade. He is a MacArthur Genius Fellow, a Time 100 honoree, the president of the Florida Rights Restoration Coalition, and he’s a former BISC board member. Beyond these incredible accomplishments, Desmond is also a true force behind real lasting change.
He led the grassroots campaign that passed Amendment 4 in Florida in 2018, restoring voting rights to over 1.4 million returning citizens, the largest expansion of voting rights in U.S. history for over half a century. His journey from incarceration to national changemaker is nothing short of remarkable, and I’m so honored to call him friend. Desmond, welcome to the show.
You’re our first guest.
[Desmond Meade]
Wow. You know, I was worried that my smile was going to get stuck in place, because you were saying just so many good things, and I just couldn’t stop smiling. But listen, I’m excited to get to hang out with you and Caroline, like for the first episode, and then we talk about diaries, and so when I’m thinking about diaries, I’m thinking about, man, we tell them some secrets and some intimate thoughts and everything.
And like, listen, I get to do it first with you guys. So, I’m happy to be here.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Oh, I’m so glad, Desmond. So, I know you super well, but for those who don’t know you, Desmond, what’s your story? Who are your people?
And what led you into this work?
[Desmond Meade]
Oh, man. You know, I like to say that I’m just an ordinary guy that did some extraordinary things and extraordinary moments because of just my personal experiences. You know, back in 2005, I remember standing in front of railroad tracks, waiting on a train to come so I can jump in front of it.
You know, that day, being homeless and addicted to drugs and recently released from incarceration, I didn’t see any light at the end of the tunnel. And I just felt as if I was a disappointment to family and friends, and I wanted to end it. But thankfully, the train never came.
And like I said, just an ordinary guy that just thought deeply about what my life was worth. And, you know, I remember one of the questions I asked myself crossing the tracks was, if I would have died, how many people would come to my funeral? And the painful answer was nobody would have came, right?
At least so I thought. But it really made me question the time that I spent on this earth. And so, you know, within the next several months after checking myself into a substance abuse treatment facility, I really dove a little deeper into that question about how many people would come to my funeral.
And I made a strong commitment during my treatment time to actually just commit my life to giving back, to being of service to others. And just doing that simple task was what propelled me to get me to the heights that I’ve been able to reach and have me in the position I am today. And so when somebody asks who Desmond Meade is, it’s the ordinary guy that took his pain and turned it into purpose.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
That’s so beautiful. And thank you for your honesty, Desmond. What led you to this like work, right?
Especially with the ballot measure work, like what was the thing that sort of motivated you to get involved and we’ll get deeper into the to Amendment 4, but like what led you?
[Desmond Meade]
You know, I remember very early in my recovery, I remember, you know, part of me giving back, you know, wanted to just involve myself in advocacy, particularly around people who were homeless because I was homeless for about like 10 years. And one of the organizations I joined, HFHF, happened to be a part of a coalition called Florida Rights Restoration Coalition that was, it was a working group that was assembled by various groups across the country, particularly the focus in Florida around felon disenfranchisement. And so when I joined that organization, I was invited to a convening and it was there that I learned of felon disenfranchisement and the impact that it even had on me personally.
But you would think that, you know, me not being able to vote in Florida because at the time Florida was one of four states that instituted a lifetime ban on voting. So anyone with a felony conviction lost the right to vote for the rest of their lives. And you would think that, you know, because I was caught up in those numbers, that was my motivation initially.
But fortunately, I guess it wasn’t, right. My motivation came from when I was traveling the state of Florida and I ended up running into people, many of whom did not even look like me, was telling me stories. I remember a firefighter in Putnam County approached me and talked to me about how years ago he got into a bar fight, you know, he was at a bar, got drunk, got into a bar fight and he ended up catching a felony charge and was convicted for a felony offense.
And how because of that, he lost his civil rights. And part of that, the impact of that or the collateral consequences of losing his civil rights was the fact that here we had a young daughter and he could not even attend a classroom trip with his young daughter, right, because his civil rights was not restored, right. Not because he had a felony conviction, but because the civil rights was not restored.
And I started learning of people not being able to buy, own or even rent a house, right, because their civil rights had not been restored. And then learning that Florida disenfranchised a quarter of the United States population back then, right, because of a prior felony conviction. And just hearing the stories of others that catapult me into doing this work.
But it was in the midst of doing the work that I conveniently forgot that I couldn’t vote. And I remember my wife, Sheena, was running for office and we were simulating voting for her. And I remember somebody approached me and said, wow, Devin, I know you can’t wait till the time you can vote for your wife.
And that’s when it brought me back to the harsh reality that I couldn’t vote. And that was so hurtful to know that my wife was running for office that I couldn’t even vote for. So that, whatever extra motivation I needed, that gave it to me.
And then you would think that that’s enough, right? But even afterwards, running across, running into people across the state that was like with tears in their eyes telling me how they’re scared that they’re going to die before they get to vote again and how much they yearn for it. You know, it was, you know, those three different areas in my life provided a continuous motivation.
And it seemed like it escalated every time, right? It just went from one thing to the next. And next thing you know, it’s about people dying, people wanting to be able to get to what it feels like to be a citizen of this country before they die.
Right. And so those are the motivations that led me to the work and have kept me in it.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Thank you for sharing that. And it’s that storytelling. It’s us having conversations with each other.
I think about it, especially in the moment that we are in right now. It’s sort of unearthing that any of us could be in those situations. You know, I don’t think I’ve told you this, Desmond, but like, I have my own history with the carceral system.
I got arrested in college for possession of drugs and that I was going to college to be a teacher. And in the state of Texas, if you have a criminal record, you cannot teach for 10 years. That completely took a different path for me, which got me involved in politics.
And I was thinking about how you shared how that train didn’t come. Right? I am a believer in divine intervention in the world and the universe does things for a reason.
And, you know, I know that while that was an incredibly hard time for me. Right? And, like, to like…like… this is the path that I thought I was going on.
It happened for a reason. It led me to today and to be in this conversation with you and Caroline and do this work. And so but it’s it is those conversations.
It’s us sharing our stories. It’s hearing other people’s stories that I think is so incredibly important. And I know that is like a lot of, you know, what you were doing, you know, with Amendment 4 and the rights restoration, you know, ballot measure.
It took many years, right? Of issue education to prime folks in Florida, right, to be ready to vote for this issue. Right? It wasn’t.
And I love you. I would love for you to share that story. I know I think it was like seven years before you actually went to the to the ballot.
So tell us more about that process. How how it started. What were some of the challenges that you face and what made you ready to go when you did?
[Desmond Meade]
And let me tell you, right, you know, you’re right. It took years, you know, when you were saying it, I was thinking about, wow, you sure did. Right?
But I think the biggest challenge was not necessarily in convincing the people to vote for. I think that was the easiest thing to do. All right.
The biggest challenge was getting the establishment to even believe enough in what I was trying to do. And even bigger than that was getting them to believe in me, right? To believe that I could actually lead a movement that the people closest to the pain are often the ones closest to the solution. And it’s not just a phrase, but it is something that is applicable.
Right. And so it took many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many years to get the gods that be to to even think that this may be something worthwhile. You know, and even then you had to convince a lot of people all the way up until the date of the election when we actually won.
We blew it out of the water, you know, at 65 percent of the vote. But, you know, I think what was was so key was recognizing early on. And, you know, when I go back to when I was saying about how I was traveling around the state and running into people, you know, like that fireman in Putnam County, who’s a white guy.
And he was Republican, you know, running into other folks. Sam, I’m not going to mention his last name, but in Escambia County or Walton County, I mean, you know, people in Escambia, people in so many different places. I’ve seen so many different hues and shades and people from all walks of life and all political places, political persuasions.
You know, it actually led me to, and I think it was so crucial, was to start out looking at this as an all-American issue, right? Like hot dogs and baseball and apple pie and Chevrolet, right? That, man, wait a minute, we can actually use this issue as a way to unify or bring people together.
We could actually use this as a test to see if we can really align people along the lines of humanity. And I remember telling my friend, who ended up eventually becoming my deputy director, Neil, that, you know, he’s a political operative. He was an ex-political operative. He was an ex-political operative.
So as a matter of fact, he helped author and channel through the voting, the last major voting rights act in Congress, right? And I think that was in, if I’m not mistaken, in 94 or something. But I remember him approaching me and talking to me about, you know, you know we need an enemy, right?
Because every fight needs an enemy. We got to point to the bad guy. And I remember laughing at him.
I said, bro, no, we don’t need an enemy. I said, our challenge is to get people to see us as human beings first. And if we can do that, we’re going to be OK.
But we don’t have to use an enemy in this particular case, which was unheard of. How could you not have…how could you have a political campaign and not have an enemy? We have to have a Darth Vader, right?
I mean, Luke Skywalker wasn’t just battling himself. But then if you really stop to think about Star Wars, most of his battles and challenges was internal. Anyway, and so I think that the thing was, is that no, we didn’t need an external enemy.
We needed to capture the things inside of us that unite us as a as a human race. Right? And so that laid the foundation for us to pursue our amendment in a way that elevated it above partisan politics and even implicit or explicit racial biases.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
That’s incredible. And Desmond, I think you really touched on something important, which is the challenge of getting to see people as human beings first is so powerful. And hearing you just talk about your story right now is such an important example.
But to that point of getting to see human beings as first and the most important thing is that one of the most, right? And it’s as basic as that. And when we think about what you did, one of the most important and powerful aspects of the movement to restore voting rights in Florida was how it brought people together across those political lines, right?
To see those people as human beings. Can you talk a little bit about how you built out that kind of bipartisan support and what lessons you think it might hold for now? Because we need those lessons now more than ever.
[Desmond Meade]
Caroline, I know, right? Like, this is so appropriate for these times, but it’s painful for these times, actually, because saying it, doing it is way harder than saying it, right? Trust me when I tell you.
But, I mean, you’re right, Caroline. I mean, but I laughed when you were talking because you said you had this bipartisan effort. And I remember when folks used to say, man, that’s a great bipartisan campaign that you’re doing.
I’m like, no, no, we’re not bipartisan. We are not bipartisan. And they’re like, oh, I’m sorry.
I meant nonpartisan campaign. I was like, no, we’re not nonpartisan either. And they’re like, then what are you?
We’re like, OK, we are an organic grassroots movement that welcomed and enjoyed bipartisan support. And the difference is we didn’t lead with the politics. We led with the people.
And I think that is so important. No matter what issue that you’re dealing with, if you lead with politics or policies or labels as opposed to the people, then you’re not going to be as effective as you really want to be. I’m not going to say I’m not saying that you’re not going to win.
You still might. You still may win. You still may get some victory here or there.
But I know what’s most powerful is when the power is generated not by the politics, but by the people. Right? And the more diverse group of people that you can get, the more powerful it is.
I knew in Florida, I mean, come on, Florida is like three states in one sometimes, you know, I mean, you never know what you’re going to get. It’s like a box of chocolates in the Forrest Gump movie Right.
You never know which one you’re going to get. And I knew that it was so divided that not just one set of people or one group of people is going to actually help you win. I knew that.
I mean, when I first learned about felonies and franchising, I thought it was only Black people that were locked up, only Black people that couldn’t vote because everybody put so much emphasis on the impact it had on the African-American community. Right? But sadly, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, when you look at the population, African-Americans are only 13 percent of the population or 14 percent of the population.
And so even if it was only just a Black issue, that I needed more than just Black people to be passionate about it. Right. And to actually vote for it.
But when I looked, what I discovered was, yeah, the felonies and franchising disproportionately impacted the African-American community. But when you looked at pure numbers, I mean, back in 2010, you know, 2011, I think the disenfranchised population was about 1.54 million. Right.
Guess what? There were more people who couldn’t vote that did not look like me than did. And African-Americans really only accounted for a third.
Right. A little less than 500,000 of those individuals were African-American, which meant that it was over a million people, right, that were white, that were whatever, you know what I’m saying? And that was the other thing too, this illusion, or this facade, that if someone’s African-American, that means they’re a Democrat, or they’re progressive, or whatever.
And that couldn’t be further from the truth, right, because there is no one race, right, that has a monopoly on political parties. But yet everybody tried to pigeonhole African-Americans into that. But understanding, you know, that number one, you’re just not going to get Democrats to win.
Number two, you’re not just going to get Republicans to win. Number three, you’re not just going to get whites to win and you’re not going to get blacks to win. You have to get a collective, right? A group of people, which meant black, white, left, right, conservative, progressive.
It didn’t matter. You needed everybody hands in this. And the reality is that when you looked at the people who were impacted, guess what?
It impacted everybody, right? Substance abuse, right, whether it’s alcohol or drug addiction, does not discriminate. No race or political party, right, or even socioeconomic class have a monopoly on drug abuse or alcohol abuse.
No one does. None of these political parties have a monopoly on people doing bad things or making mistakes. You know, when I was arrested, they didn’t ask me if I was Democrat or Republican.
When I went before the judge to get sentenced, he didn’t ask me if I was Democrat or Republican. All of that was irrelevant, right? These economic challenges and substance abuse issues are things that impact people, not parties, right?
And therefore, the solution is within the people, not the parties. And so we were able to create a tent that was big enough and was willing to invite everyone in, right? And it didn’t matter.
And one of the key things was how we remove labels, labels that divide us, the labels that, you know, cause us to hide in shame or to not be seen or not want to be heard. You know, how do we remove those labels and create an environment where everybody can stand up and raise their hand and say, I want to be a part of this, right? And I think, you know, when you talk about a movement that was based on love, I think most people would not be ashamed to say, hey, I am moved by love.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Wow, that is powerful. And, you know, when you said leading with the people and not the politics, and I think you really, truly exemplify that and in the way you led your campaign. And it’s so….it’s so missing from politics in general right now.
We’re so far removed from that space. And so, it’s just so….it’s so heartening to hear you talk about it. So, going back a little bit, as a comms person myself, I’m always super interested in, like, the messaging and the messaging strategy.
[Desmond Meade]
I knew that was coming.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Amendment four.
[Desmond Meade]
It was Caroline. I knew that was coming. I’m telling you.
And that’s why I saved it. I was getting ready to say it earlier, but I was like, no, I’m going to give Caroline, I’m going to give her some points and let her bring the question forth. Right?
So she could be the genius that drew it out of Desmond. Go ahead, Caroline.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
I’m here with you.
[Desmond Meade]
You’re the genius.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Well, you talked about the tent, right? Like how you brought people into the tent. How did you do it?
Obviously, everything you’ve said really makes me think, well, he led with his heart and everybody you surrounded yourself with led with their hearts. And hell, there’s no better way of getting people into that tent than with that message and with that heart. But as a comms person, what were some of the narratives and the messages that got you there?
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
We want to know. Can I just add one thing? Can I just add one thing?
Also, it was really necessary in Florida because of the 60 percent threshold. You had to, right?
[Desmond Meade]
Yeah, yeah. But let me tell you, so many years ago, when I was trying to figure out how to do this thing, I remember sneaking into a BISC conference. Yeah, I snuck in.
I can say it now. It’s past the statute of limitations. You can’t do anything about it, Chris.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
You know, Desmond, you got borrowed seats every single time.
[Desmond Meade]
I remember sneaking into the BISC conference, but it was two things, two things that really influenced the comms. One was when I snuck in—they were going over the marriage equality fight that a good friend of mine, Solomon, was a part of: Mark Solomon. And the other thing was, I went to school, when I went to school, I went to school with some folks that were called dreamers.
And I remember they did the Walk of Tears, right? Trail of Tears, where they walked from Miami all the way to Washington, D.C., right? To deliver a request to, at the time, I think it was President Barack Obama, about undocumented youth that was brought over, right, by their parents, right?
And I remember seeing how they were operating, and so between those two, they did have an impact, right? I’m answering your question, Caroline, trust me. Because, you know, comms is like, okay, we’re in Florida. It’s three different parts of Florida, three different mindsets in Florida. And so we have to figure out what’s the right messaging we’re going to use in South Florida that, you know, we can’t, it’s not going to pass in North Florida.
So we have to tweak it a little bit in North Florida. And then you got Central Florida that, you know, flip-flops, you never know what you’re going to get in Central Florida. One minute it gives you President Barack Obama, next minute it gives you President Donald Trump.
So you don’t know what you’re getting in Central Florida. So how are you going to get three different messages in three different media markets in the state of Florida to drive people toward supporting Amendment 4? And you know what?
Like, none, none, N-O-N-E, right? And that’s why I tell you, Caroline, you remove the but, because you said all the answers right there in your preliminary leading up to your question, right? Let me tell you, no matter where I went in the state of Florida, I would ask the same question.
I don’t care where I went. You know what that question was? What?
Tell us. Do you know anybody who you love who’s ever made a mistake? That’s it.
Sure have. Okay, but you know what? Then we’re on.
Then we’re on. Let me tell you. And it works 99.999999% of the time. It didn’t work on two people. And all of my years of doing it, it didn’t work on two people. One was a guy in Jacksonville at a Jacksonville Jaguar game.
And it was a tailgate party. I remember walking up to him and he loudly let me know that he was voting for Donald Trump. And I was like, congratulations.
That’s good. I appreciate that. I appreciate you participating in our democracy.
And I asked him that question and he said, yes, right? My son. And in the back of my head, I was like, yes, I got another one.
You know, I’m like batting a thousand, right? And I said, wouldn’t you want your son to be able to vote after he’s paid all his debt society? And that father looked me square in my eye and said, hell no.
My son is too damn stupid. I don’t ever want him to vote. And I thanked him for his time, because if this guy don’t even want his own son to vote, then it’s no need for me to talk to him anymore.
Right? And then the last one was a Latino pastor in a biker bar. Yeah.
I went, listen, let me tell you something. I collected petitions everywhere. And me and my family and I, we went to Trump rallies and we collected petitions, right?
We collected petitions everywhere. And the first congressional districts that qualified were conservative congressional districts. So there was nowhere that we could not go, that we could not find people who had someone who they loved, who’ve made a mistake in the past and felt that they deserve a second chance, that they should not be barred for the rest of their lives from moving on with their lives and pursuing the American dream.
Nowhere. But in that biker bar, now, I could never figure out what was a Latino clergy doing in the biker bar.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
That’s the congregation right there.
[Desmond Meade]
He wasn’t preaching. And he sure enough didn’t believe about forgiveness, because when I asked him about forgiveness, he said, hell no. Those are the only two people in my entire career that I’ve ever ran across that said no to Amendment 4.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
It feels like such a loss of hope, right?
[Desmond Meade]
Well, why would it be? Two out of, like, 21 million? I mean, shoot.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
I’m saying loss of hope for just those two people, because it makes sense for everybody else.
[Desmond Meade]
God knows what they were going through, you know. Hopefully their lives have improved. Hopefully that father has mended his relationship with his son, who he thought at the time was just too stupid to be able to do anything.
Hopefully that relationship is much better. But at the core, though, to answer your question, Caroline, we didn’t have to change any messaging when we dealt with a person’s heart, right? And that’s what we did.
And we led with that. If we would have led with anything else, it would have caused some type of defense mechanism or compartmentalizing the issue, you know, labeling the issue. It would have caused areas for us to have to fight through.
But when we dealt with matters of the heart and basically, you know, I used to wear a shirt all the time that said, “Let My People Vote.” And people used to ask me, who are your people? And my response to them would be like, anybody who you love who’s ever made a mistake, that’s who I want to vote.
You know, think about the people who you love, right? I’m not even telling you to think about my people, think about me. Just think about the people who you love, who you care about, who you have to sit at the dinner table with, who you have to lay in bed with, right? That’s made a mistake.
Right. And it’s told that for the rest of your life, you’re not going to be a citizen of this country anymore. You can’t, you can’t….you can’t enjoy the rights of being able to choose, right, who is leading your community, your state, or your country.
Right. And let me tell you, when it comes down to the basic principles, right, I don’t care if you’re white, black, I don’t care if you’re conservative or not, that you’re going to see value in supporting something that promotes second chances. This country is a nation of second chances to begin with.
And so, you know, I was already ahead of the game.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Absolutely. You mentioned Desmond also, and I just want to go back for a second when you talk, when you just said in terms of like any comms folks that are here or like are new to communications and, you know, we’re thinking so much about the resonating narratives and the messages and it’s like you skipped the brain part and went right to the heart. Right?
And that, that is so… it’s so hard to do for folks because we always want to lead with the message. Like, how do we make them understand? And it’s like your campaign, you made the heart understand first and we know that.
That’s instinctual, right?
[Desmond Meade]
That brain can be tricky. You know, you think that if I tell people the truth, that if I, if I just give them facts that that’s going to, the mind, people’s minds does not work like that. It is way more complicated than that.
And so not, well, you can, you can be, you can go out in the wilderness and try that all these different scientific theories. And, and, and, and I think they’re correct, but to be able to navigate that individually when you’re dealing with millions and millions of people, because everyone has their own unique experiences. Right?
And so you may be able to get one or two, but you’re going to lose eight or nine. Right? And so how do you wait right here?
Right here.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Well, I think it’s so important to lift up, especially, you know, for people who are in the policy political world. I mean, I’ve been in it for 25 years and, you know, I come from the voting rights and democracy space and like that facts part that you talked about Desmond is like, well, no, if we just give them all the facts, like they’re obviously. And I remember when I was doing voting rights messaging, we were talking about values and the freedom, right?
Like freedom was such a fundamentally important value when it comes to voting. And when I would talk in rooms with, with voting rights advocates, they’re like, how no, we need to tell them the facts. And I’m like, no, actually you have to bring people together from their heart, from their gut.
Right? That is actually what’s going to be the most motivating things to people. So I think it’s, I’m so glad you talked about that because I think people need to understand that when we’re doing these, these type of efforts.
[Desmond Meade]
Listen, we have the ultimate proof right now in this world that facts don’t matter. That’s right.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
100%.
[Desmond Meade]
What matters is how people feel, right? Absolutely. How they feel.
So, hey, oh man.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
That’s so true. So Desmond, you talked a little bit about the BISC conference, and I’m really curious as someone who’s now been with the organization for five years.
[Desmond Meade]
I can’t tell you all my tricks. I might have to sneak in again, maybe next year or something, you know.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
We are not sharing your secrets.
[Desmond Meade]
I’m just saying because I don’t get the discount rate anymore, so I might have to sneak in next year. But I can’t give out my secrets, right? They’re going to beef up security just for me.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
That’s right. No. Tell us a little bit about your relationship with BISC at the time.
How did BISC show up for you? How were we supportive?
[Desmond Meade]
Well, let me tell you, and this is a shout out to the previous leadership of BISC. Justine, yep. Before, yeah, Justine and the crew.
And there’s so many holdovers that you guys still have. We were a group of people who never did a ballot issue before. Listen, I would like to be like somebody that says, yeah, it came to me in a dream.
I don’t know how it came to me. But all I know was that this was something that was placed on my heart to do by divine power. And I always acknowledge the divine presence that we had from start to finish in this.
And we’re continuing to have even to today. But in addition to the divine presence were how the universe was lining up strategic people or organizations along the way and removing some along the way. The people that you thought you needed, the divine alignment would move those out the way.
And when you think all is lost, no, it’s just this thing. It’s just it’s unexplainable. But one of those pieces was BISC.
And the way how BISC really helped, I think BISC helped us really see things. And when you talk about a ballot initiative, there’s so many different elements that’s floating around out there. It could become overwhelming.
It can become confusing and it can just cause you to just shut down or make missteps because you’re not seeing things as clearly as you need to. I think with BISC, BISC allows you to slow everything down and see things as they are and get much clearer pictures. And the people at BISC were very thoughtful and deliberate folks that was very methodical that would help you become methodical and really think things through and understand the different moving pieces, why they’re there, the importance that they played and the timing that they needed to be implemented in as well.
And I think BISC broke that down for a novice. I think anybody without a prior experience could like connect with BISC and get tools necessary to win. And I’m a perfect example of that.
I’ve never led a campaign before, right? I didn’t know anything about campaigns, but I would say that BISC helped me with really establishing the foundation and then being able to build and then understand how you need to build around that. So it’s not just, oh, I want to run a campaign and just go run it.
No, there’s so many moving pieces that you’ve got to maneuver and put in place. You know, it’s very complicated. It really is.
And then when you’re in a complicated state, it becomes even more complicated, you know? But I was able to do it. And you know what?
When some folks, maybe some organizations, may have shied away or walked away, or said, “Oh, that’s a waste of time.” BISC was like, “You’re onto something, and we’re willing to walk with you through this.” “We’re willing to help you explore the different ways”
We’re not going to lie to you and say, “Oh, yeah, you’re going to win,” you know. Well, we’re going to help you think through the different challenges. We don’t want you to walk in there blind.
And so we’re going to help. Hey, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that?
All right. This is how we can react to that or we can get ready for whatever, you know. And so that was very important for me.
Yeah, I said I snuck in. Yeah, I did. Security was the mean people, but not the regular folks at BISC.
They were all right. When they seen me, they didn’t call security on me. That happened to me one time with another organization.
I’m not going to mention that their initials are D.A. But, you know, they would call security to get you out of there. “You’re not one of us, and you need to get out of here.”
You know, with BISC, it was like, “No, hey, great to see you.” Then I said, “Did you pay?” But we were good there.
But it was it was people who saw me as a human being. And then at no point did I ever feel that I was being diminished. And that’s something that I’ve experienced numerous times.
The folks are like, who is this guy? First of all, he’s not white. He’s not a woman.
All right. Not a male, not a white male or a white woman or this, that or whatever. He’s not.
He doesn’t have the correct language. He doesn’t speak organizing language. He doesn’t speak with the rising inflection in his voice.
And all these tales that people are used to. But BISC was like, “even though he meets none of those, like, superficial criteria, he still is a human being that’s trying to and he’s on to a beautiful issue.” “And he’s trying to do something that we think would be amazing if he can accomplish it.”
“How could we help him succeed?” And that’s what I felt every single time I attended the BISC conference or every single time I picked up a phone or got on a Zoom. I felt that every single time.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Thank you for sharing that. You know, I do agree that I think that is one of the things that distinguishes BISC is, yeah, we can tell you how to write a campaign plan. We can tell you how to do research.
But we see you as people. We see what you’re trying to do. And we’re going to be there for you every step of the way.
Especially when people, I mean, I know for a long time, right, funders were like, “no, this is never going to happen.” Right? But we’re with you every step of the way.
And I think that’s so critical in this work. Like, there is just no perfect checklist that you can create that is going to just make things happen exactly the way that you… and, you know, there is just no perfect checklist. So, I appreciate that, Desmond.
And that rings true today. It’s very much of how we want to be in deep relationship and deep partnership with folks.
[Desmond Meade]
And you know, Chris, some of your BISC fans (if they want) I do have a book out called Let My People Vote. And I write about that.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
You mean this book right here?
[Desmond Meade]
Thank you so much. And I think I put a little piece in there too, especially about the sneaking in part. I still don’t give out the secrets.
Caroline, no one gives those secrets. But yeah, I wrote about that in the book too, because that was a key moment as well.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Yeah. So I often say, you’ve brought a lot of this out in the course of the conversation. But when people, you know, talk about like, what are some, what is a great example of, you know, a ballot measure that leads for, has led in the way that, you know, BISC advises folks, our theory of change, right?
Centering the most impacted communities, really thinking hard about how you tackle race, power, and privilege. But most important, leaving something beyond that campaign, right? Like, it’s not just that campaign, right?
And that’s certainly true for A4, right? So how did that play out with Amendment 4? And what are some of the lessons that you learned?
[Desmond Meade]
Yeah. I mean, I think you had a couple of key points there, right? One, before I forget, was the fact that, yeah, how do you leave something in place, right?
I didn’t truly understand, the one part I didn’t understand as much, and I wish I did looking back now, was about the fight after you win, right? But what I did, what was helpful for me was understanding, how do you run an initiative in a way that, win, lose, or draw, you’re still going to win, some type of way, or you’re going to have…… you’re going to have some type of infrastructure to continue the work. And so I was being very intentional with that, with Amendment 4.
The other part, you know, is about, yeah, it is a constant struggle. Because, you know, I think one of the things, and Biff was very helpful with this, was that, you know, when you try to get people to fund a ballot initiative, right, one of the things they’re going to want to know is: well, who do you have on your team, And nine times out of 10, it’s not necessarily people that win, but the people that maybe have a reputation, right? And I say that because, you know, unfortunately, I look at, so let me, this is diary, right?
We’re being straightforward. You know, so here’s the thing. I remember when I came up with the idea of a ballot initiative, right?
You know, the first thing I did, one of the first things I did was I did research and I found out, well, who’s the last person that won a ballot initiative in Florida, right? And I went and I tracked them down, right? It took me a while, but when I finally tracked them down, I was able to sit down with them, have conversations, right, and really be able to pick their brain and then invite them to be even a part of what I was trying to do, even as an advisor, right?
Unfortunately, we had two ballot initiatives not too long ago in Florida. Both of them failed, and the one common element in both of them was neither one did that. Neither one, right, sought to have a conversation with me, right?
The last person that won a major ballot initiative in the state of Florida, right, with a 60% requirement, and neither one of them did that, right? With BISC, and this is what, you know, I was telling folks, you know, before a while back, was that you would think that, you know, a lot of these people who are going to fund campaigns, they want to say, okay, are you in conversation with people who have the expertise? And our answer was always, well, kind of.
We talking to one person who won it, but other than that, the main people at the top are people who were trying this for the first time. BISC ended up being that validator for us initially, right? When we were saying, hey, we’re working with BISC, there were some donors that felt a little more at peace with furthering the conversations with us.
And so that was important, and that was vital for us. The other piece is when you talk about just how do people, like, respect the leadership of people directly impacted, you know? When I look at over the last, say, 15 years, the biggest movement around the expansion of democracy, all right, particularly when we talk about the expansion of voting rights, right, that happened in North Carolina, in Louisiana, in California, New Mexico, and Minnesota, and some other places, when you look at the common denominator, they were all led by people who were directly impacted, right?
But I found myself at that time, and I got to be happy about this knowing that all of those folks that were involved in No Victories and No Stakes also had one more other thing in common, and that was they all came to Florida to help me out with Amendment 4. And so they got to see firsthand, the power of what can happen when we come together and move these issues. But back then with me, you know, it was like, yeah, it was a constant fight every day, you know. If this party or that party or this org or that org, you know, wasn’t trying to make an attempt to undermine my leadership or take over the campaign.
It was a dull day, you know, but it was, there were challenges there. And so, how do we, you know, continue to be courageous enough to allow, and here’s the thing, right, not just… you don’t, no one gets a free pass because they’re directly impacted. You don’t get a free pass, right?
But you at least got to be given the opportunity and be supported in the leadership, right? And so I wasn’t looking for a free pass, and I’ve learned this, right, that you have to have a level of professionalism, right, to run large scale operations and campaigns, and there’s some pieces that you just can’t get around, you have to deal with. I understand that.
So it’s not just about what’s in my heart and based on my experience, it’s a combination of all of that and being able to bend when you need to bend, or contort a certain way to make these pieces fit together, right? You know, when you look at a beautiful mosaic, right, and you look at the pieces, they’re never perfect, right? They’re never just straight lines, it’s jagged, it’s whatever, but it’s so beautiful when you look at it, when you step back and look at it, and that’s a battle in this, and I think that is the campaign.
But you do have to have the element of people who are closest to the pain, and they have to be there, and you have to find the right leadership there, you know? Not just anybody can play that role. And then you have to really find the supporting actors, the supporting organizations, and piece that all together and be willing to sit in some uncomfortable situations with each other and know that we’re still committed to each other in spite of these differences or these tough, uncomfortable situations.
And trust me, we’ve had a lot of those, but my partners that I had at the table at the end were the best partners, and we got through it.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Thank you for that. It’s just so, I mean, I know this story so well, but every time I hear, and I did bring out the book, but I honestly, everybody buy Desmond’s book, but actually listen to the audio tape because you get to hear it in Desmond’s voice, which is like, you know, it’s a whole other…. it’s just listening to you tell that story, it’s just, it’s beautiful.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
It will be linked in the show notes, people. So linked to the book.
[Desmond Meade]
Right. That’s right, Cara. So you’re right.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
You sort of alluded to this already, Desmond, right? You win election night in 2018, beautiful, great thing, but that wasn’t the end of the story, right? You faced a lot of obstacles, especially in implementation.
So, you know, walk us through that.
[Desmond Meade]
I faced a harsh reality of politics, you know. And you know, it’s sad. And here’s the thing, right? That when two sides are fighting, right, both sides can take a fair share of the blame, right?
To be honest with you. And it was like, you know, I remember the night that we won and there were two burdens that was lifted off of my shoulder. One being the fact that, you know, I knew as a Black man and as a person who was directly impacted that there were so many people that were saying that this thing would never be successful.
And that weight was lifted off my back. There was no more glass ceiling for directly impacted people to lead major movements, right? That if nothing else, we showed that we can be successful.
And it didn’t have to be a certain type of person with a certain type of degrees or whatever, right? That it really opened up the field. The other piece was, you know, I remember in 2016 running, encountering this older gentleman who we thought could vote and we took him to vote.
He could barely walk. He had to drive and, you know, he needed help just walking. And he had his oxygen tank the whole nine yards.
And we took him to vote. And after a couple hours, discovered he couldn’t vote because a few years earlier, he was convicted of driving with a suspended license. And that voting location at the library was directly across the street from the graveyard.
And I remember crying that day and thinking how this man is going to die before he even get to vote again, right? And it really bothered me. And he was there that night when we passed him in before and he was hugging me, crying, saying he can vote now, right?
And just that feeling that man, we really showed the world that love can, in fact, win the day, right? And it was such a beautiful feeling. And, you know, to get politicians to insert themselves into it and to get politics, right?
Because when politicians get involved in politics is right there. And next thing you know, those lines got drawn real quick. And we’ve seen something that was beautiful where we show the world that we don’t have to hate each other.
We don’t have to create fear in each other to move major policies that love can, in fact, do it. Martin Luther King talked about it. You can’t drive out hate with hate.
You can’t drive out fear with fear, right? And it seems like we’re not, as a society, we’re not getting that. And so you’re seeing tit for tat, tit for tat, you know. Going back to Caroline’s earlier question about how difficult it is, right, to really love somebody that may not think like you or look like you or whatever.
But understanding that or does something bad to you, like, when does it stop, right? If now we got to get back and we got to retaliate for what the hurt you’ve caused me, right, then they’re going to have to retaliate for the hurt I’ve caused them. And then I retaliate for the, so when does it end?
Somebody has to be courageous enough to say, “Wait, stop.” “We don’t have to continue doing this, right?” And so we see that when we pass this amendment and we show that, man, that we could actually do this, right, through love and not through hate or fear, right, to see then the politics come into play.
And all of a sudden, everything is drawn along the lines of Democrat or Republican, Black or white. That was, it was, it was heartbreaking. And I remember the very first thing I did was I told everybody I’m registering as an independent.
That’s it. I’m not, you know, I’m not, I don’t want to play this game anymore, right? I was just tired.
I was like, no, I’m not, because I seen the politics being played on both sides, right? And I’ve seen the harm being caused on both sides. And while they’re fighting up there, it’s the people who are closest to the pain that’s getting hurt, right?
While politicians are fighting about drinking water, right, families in Flint, Michigan was being poisoned, right? And so, you know, even when we look at the floods and the, you know, disasters that this country faced, right, or even during the COVID, what I told folks is that when politics is involved, people die, right? When people are involved, man, we get to see some beautiful things and people live.
We see people responding to each other along the lines of humanity and doing amazing things that make this country great, right? It’s not the politics. Politics don’t make our country great.
It’s not the policies that make our country great. It’s our ability to love each other in spite of our differences that make this country great, right? To stand up for each other in spite of our differences, to put our lives on the line for each other in spite of our differences.
Those are the things that make this country great. It ain’t about whether you’re a Democrat or Republican or Black or what, none of that makes it, none of that, none of it. And just to have to go through that and see that, you know, at the end of the day, when it got down to the technical spot, now we knew what the undertones were.
They were all political. It was purely political, but it’s centered on a simple phrase, completion of sentence. That was it, completion of sentence.
And one side said that completion of sentence meant one thing. The other side said, “completion of sentence meant something else.” And we had to let them duke it out in court.
And at the end of the day, the court said completion of sentence mean paying all of your legal financial obligations, not just some of it. We believe that it was only some of it. So let me say it again for clarity.
We believe that it was only some of it, but the courts said it was all of it. And so we had to adjust. And so that’s what we’ve been doing for the past several years afterwards and still fighting the different attempts at voter intimidation and discouraging or suppressing votes.
And we’re still fighting through that. But I wish I would have known or been more aware of how easily this could have dissolved into a political, that something so beautiful could dissolve so quickly into something so political. I don’t know if I could have done anything different, but it would have been better to know what was coming, what was upcoming ahead of time.
So, it wouldn’t have been such a major disappointment to me those two years after we passed it.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Yeah, understood. And in hearing you talk about that, Desmond, I think of, you know, the theme of our season right now for this podcast is why ballot measures? Why now?
Right? So could you answer that question for us? Why are ballot measures so important in this juncture?
[Desmond Meade]
So let me tell you my motivation for Amendment 4, right? Because when I looked at, you know, I seen that…. we had worked hard, the coalition had worked hard to change some of the policies around felonies and enfranchisement. And we’ve seen some headway there in Florida.
The last victory we had was when the governor at the time was Charlie Chris, who was Republican at the time, adopted a policy that allowed for the automatic restoration of rights for people who were convicted of less serious crimes, right? Before that, the governor before him was Governor Jeb Bush. And Governor Jeb Bush, four years in office, over 75,000 people were able to get their civil rights restored to include their voting rights.
Under Governor Chris, in his four years, over 150,000 people were able to have their civil rights restored. After he left office after four years, the new governor, which was Rick Scott, who’s the current senator for Florida, he reversed those policies, right, and made it even harder for people to get their civil rights restored, right? And it was so hard that in his eight years in office, you know, probably maybe a couple hundred, I don’t even think a couple hundred people did.
And I know that even in the seven years or six years for our current governor, not too many people. It never reached the amount that it reached with Governor Chris or with Governor Jeb Bush, which, let me say, were both Republican governors at the time, right? And there were times when we went a whole year and less than 10 people had their rights restored, right?
And so he made it real hard, but it opened my eyes because I was like, “wow! you mean with a signature on a piece of paper, four politicians could decide which American citizen get to vote and which American citizen don’t get to vote?” right? And I was like, well, for me, the most important indicator of citizenship was being able to vote. And so, you know, nothing speaks more to citizenship than that, right?
To have the power to determine whether or not someone is a second class citizen, to have that power in the hands of any politician, I think was a bad thing. Whether they’re Democrat, Republican, Independent, whatever party there, it doesn’t matter. Because when you put that kind of power in the hands of politicians, you will always leave space for partisan politics to impact the decision making process, right?
It’s going to happen, period. You see it. You know, people, we talk about even like how states are drawing lines, right?
And guess what? The same thing that you see in conservative states, right? You actually see it in progressive states, like folks, politicians, when they get in the office, their number one job is to stay in office.
And so they’re going to do things or they’re going to support policies that would allow them to continue to remain in office. And so partisan politics will always have an influence or in road to influence decisions. Unfortunately, our constitution starts with three words.
We, the people, right? Not we the political party or none of that, right? And so what we’re seeing is the political parties have hijacked our constitution, have hijacked our way of life, have hijacked our democracy.
And they’ve done a horrible job. Well, actually, they’ve done a good job, if you want to look at it, of destroying it, right? All right.
And so ballot measures are necessary because what I saw back then is so relevant now is that some things you just cannot leave in the hands of politicians because they will show their unwillingness or they’ll show their ineptitude or they’ll show their partisan colors in addressing the issues that we need them addressed. And the issues that we want are issues that impact all of us as a people and not just a political party. And so if you’re going to leave what’s impacting people’s lives in the hands of political parties or politicians, then you’re not going to get the relief you wanted.
Therefore, the second greatest act of citizenship, first being the vote, the second greatest act for me is when the people come together, because if you stop to think about it, the original power rests with who? The people. And we decided to acquiesce some of our power to elect public servants to do our bidding, right?
But when it gets to a point where our public servants are not doing our bidding, then we have a mechanism through a ballot measure that allows us to take matters in our own hand because we are the original holders of the power. Not the parties.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Amen, period. I mean, Desmond, I say often that people that y’all forget, like we talk about the judiciary, we talk about the executive, we talk about the legislative branch, the fourth and most important branch of democracy is us.
[Desmond Meade]
It’s us.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
It’s the people.
[Desmond Meade]
It starts with us. And that’s it.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Democracy does not survive without people being at the center and people and our everything being driven by the people.
[Desmond Meade]
And that’s why it is vitally important that you get as many people together, which means that we can engage and have conversations in a way that allows that tent to broaden. It allows that tent to get wider and wider. So you bring the people into the conversation.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
I love that, Desmond. And I love the idea of bringing people into the tent because this seems to be the recurring theme is like the way that you talk about how you really drive movements forward is really about the heart and bringing people into your tent. So now that you’ve inspired a whole litany of people to go into ballot measure campaigns, you have, you totally have.
Let’s do a little quick fire round of what advice would you have for someone just beginning in their career, like advocacy or politics? And what’s something you would tell people who are already seasoned in political work? What should they be open to?
[Desmond Meade]
OK, so I’m going to try to answer both of them with one answer. Right? Love it.
Right. And I’m going to do it by understanding the difference between the commitment and the contribution. Right.
You have to understand that the difference there, the best way I explain it is with a ham and cheese omelet, understanding that it takes eggs, ham, cheese and milk to make a good ham and cheese omelet. I say milk because milk, we stretch the eggs a little bit. But the but the egg comes from the chicken, the cheese and the milk comes from the cow and the ham comes from the pig.
Right. And so understanding the difference between contribution and commitment, you think the chicken made a contribution to the ham and cheese omelet. The cow made a contribution to the ham and cheese omelet.
The pig, however, made a commitment to the ham and cheese omelet. Right? Which meant the pig gave his life.
Sacrifice, yeah And so you have to understand which which role you play and you have to get it right. Right?
Understanding that no role is less important than the other, because you need all three to actually make a good ham and cheese omelet. Right? But you have to know what role you play.
And if you’re trying to play the role of the pig or you’re in a way of playing the pig when you’re really a cow or a chicken, then you mess up the whole formula. Right. And I think even seasoned people need to understand that, because even though you have the experience, the degrees and all of that on your wall and you have the impressive resume.
Right. You have to understand because you could be in a situation where you’re just a contributor and you’re getting in the way of the people that are really ready and willing to make that sacrifice. And when you’re not, when you’re getting in that way, you’re preventing great things from happening.
Right? The same thing as a new person coming in, is that you find your role where you are and that’s where you will thrive. You will burn out other way, in the other way.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Thank you. Such a great analogy. So as we close, and you’ve heard me say this Desmond, you know, the sort of call to action, especially when I took over leadership of BISC and you’ve so beautifully woven this throughout the conversation.
But my call to action, and you’ve heard me say this, is we need to make ballot measures, love letters to our people. Right? And, you know, this is called the Direct Democracy Diary.
So if you were writing that diary entry, right, how was Amendment 4 a love letter to your community?
[Desmond Meade]
Dear diary, As I sit here reflecting on the passage of Amendment 4, I can see how Amendment 4 was a love letter to people in Florida. How we said that we actually can accomplish great things when we put those who we love at the forefront of our actions, as opposed to our parties or our political leanings or our religious leanings or whatever. It showed that how, when we can believe in forgiveness, redemption, restoration, how we believe that anyone makes a mistake and everyone deserves a second chance, how that can turn into something beautiful.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
That is so well said, Desmond. Yeah, I feel it so deeply.
[Desmond Meade]
It’s so the word of love can win the day. I believe it, yes! That love letter we signed with love can and will always win the day.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Yes, amen. Desmond, thank you for being our first podcast guest. Thank you for sharing your love, for always writing that love letter to your community, regardless of who you are and what path you may have taken, that mistake you might have made in life.
That you are such an embodiment of when we lead with love, anything is possible. So thank you so much.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Awesome. Thank you, Desmond.
[Desmond Meade]
All right, thank you.
[Caroline Sánchez-Avakian]
Thanks for listening to the Direct Democracy Diaries. If you enjoyed today’s episode, leave us a message on our socials at ballotstrategy and check out our website at ballot.org for more updates, insights, research, and so much more.
[Chris Melody Fields Figueredo]
Can’t wait to see you next time. Keep fighting for change, one ballot at a time.